Comments on: Why most programmers are lousy http://www.iovene.com/56/ The thoughts of a computer programmer, open source supporter, astrophotographer and free-thinker. Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:08:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Greg http://www.iovene.com/56/#comment-151002 Greg Thu, 08 Sep 2011 14:08:41 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/why-most-programmers-are-lousy/#comment-151002 Very incitefull as to the reasons. I would like to add, that most don't have the appitude, period. If a person liked geometry, they probably make a better programmer. Management, with the 'point and click' mentality in corporations have no idea, they want cheap out sourced labor. The Asian-Indians are no smarter and maybe dummer than Americans due to the compliant attitude that comes from the 'Hindu' culture but its been marketed well, that somehow they are 'better'. I've been doing this for 20 years and still get paid well in a niche market. It hard to find 'programmers' anymore that can actually 'do it'. Very incitefull as to the reasons. I would like to add, that most don’t have the appitude, period. If a person liked geometry, they probably make a better programmer. Management, with the ‘point and click’ mentality in corporations have no idea, they want cheap out sourced labor. The Asian-Indians are no smarter and maybe dummer than Americans due to the compliant attitude that comes from the ‘Hindu’ culture but its been marketed well, that somehow they are ‘better’.

I’ve been doing this for 20 years and still get paid well in a niche market.
It hard to find ‘programmers’ anymore that can actually ‘do it’.

]]> By: i_bryn http://www.iovene.com/56/#comment-150603 i_bryn Tue, 06 Sep 2011 16:08:49 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/why-most-programmers-are-lousy/#comment-150603 iam a old fart who was really intrested and into programming over 25 years ago but the timing and family got in the way so now days am miles behind and way out of touch with what some programmers can do.I agree with most that some well most seem to have no idea and bang out sites with say 100s of games/apps on it,even thou there all rubbish it seem to keep the punters happy for 5 mins or so then they move onto the next thing for 5mins etc.staying on that site and making it money . well i thought is this it just 1000s of sites with rubbish on. then i met 4 bros. who to be honest with u inpressed the hell out of me with there understanding and committment to learning how to use the code out there to make proper apps/games that looked good(no java)worked has it should like in the real world and not be greedy about making loads of money for the hell of it .this is there history http://www.memirsoftware.com/history.html has a team they were great and both there main site were doing really well a few years ago thesnookerclub.com and thepoolclub.com then they went seperate ways and now only 1 of them runs both the sites plus he has just made flash pool on facebook which really does rub it in the faces of other flash c... ive seen i never thought u could make such a good game with flash untill i saw that. but you go to these sites now and ipool is hardly surviving and isnooker is going the same way y? because thats all they are 1 site is pool other is snooker no fancy this or that,so punters get bored and leave.so moral of the story is do u make 1 brill program or bang out 100s of useless stuff.well a true programmer doesnt care about money thats all they want to do,just a shame that when offered help to say promote or update or just help there site progress,they look at u with a blank stare,and you think wow ok you got the brains but you got no idea on how the real world works lol. reason for me to write all this sorry its so long i would just like us to remember those great programmers out there who have just disapeaed in the great net of nothingness long live them ,and soon ill add these site to that list too i fear. mind you thanks to web.archive.org/ at least in years to come people can log on and see how the internet and sites were like back in our day. iam a old fart who was really intrested and into programming over 25 years ago but the timing and family got in the way so now days am miles behind and way out of touch with what some programmers can do.I agree with most that some well most seem to have no idea and bang out sites with say 100s of games/apps on it,even thou there all rubbish it seem to keep the punters happy for 5 mins or so then they move onto the next thing for 5mins etc.staying on that site and making it money .
well i thought is this it just 1000s of sites with rubbish on.
then i met 4 bros. who to be honest with u inpressed the hell out of me with there understanding and committment to learning how to use the code out there to make proper apps/games that looked good(no java)worked has it should like in the real world and not be greedy about making loads of money for the hell of it .this is there history http://www.memirsoftware.com/history.html
has a team they were great and both there main site were doing really well a few years ago thesnookerclub.com and thepoolclub.com then they went seperate ways and now only 1 of them runs both the sites plus he has just made flash pool on facebook which really does rub it in the faces of other flash c… ive seen i never thought u could make such a good game with flash untill i saw that.
but you go to these sites now and ipool is hardly surviving and isnooker is going the same way y?
because thats all they are 1 site is pool other is snooker no fancy this or that,so punters get bored and leave.so moral of the story is do u make 1 brill program or bang out 100s of useless stuff.well a true programmer doesnt care about money thats all they want to do,just a shame that when offered help to say promote or update or just help there site progress,they look at u with a blank stare,and you think wow ok you got the brains but you got no idea on how the real world works lol.
reason for me to write all this sorry its so long i would just like us to remember those great programmers out there who have just disapeaed in the great net of nothingness long live them ,and soon ill add these site to that list too i fear.
mind you thanks to web.archive.org/ at least in years to come people can log on and see how the internet and sites were like back in our day.

]]> By: jimmy johanes http://www.iovene.com/56/#comment-147390 jimmy johanes Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:38:51 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/why-most-programmers-are-lousy/#comment-147390 the thing is this wannabe so-called uber alles programmer is sometimes breaking the market with their ultra stupid low payment/charges and prices. Thus demand and supply will benefit them although the customers with no prior programming knowledge don't know that they are not that good, as long as the project/system is delivered on time. the thing is this wannabe so-called uber alles programmer is sometimes breaking the market with their ultra stupid low payment/charges and prices. Thus demand and supply will benefit them although the customers with no prior programming knowledge don’t know that they are not that good, as long as the project/system is delivered on time.

]]> By: Dave http://www.iovene.com/56/#comment-125589 Dave Fri, 08 Apr 2011 12:01:48 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/why-most-programmers-are-lousy/#comment-125589 100% agree, my friend. As I was reading through this article the only thing that struck me was the elitist attitude of the author. "If you don't start programming before 10 you're bad." "If you don't spend all of your free time on programming internet sites, you're bad." All complete bullshit. To be a programmer is to be a problem solver, not a "code machine". Humans are natural problem solvers. I believe anyone could be a passable programmer given the effort, granted with differing levels of aptitude as is the case in any field. To write off someone because they're new to programming, or new to a language, or new to a coding standard- is beyond blind. You should relish in the opportunity to see a problem through this fresh set of eyes, not deride them because you think programming should be some sort of "secret club." And the final line: "but all falls down to numbers." Yep I think that about sums up this post. 0/10. I hope no prospective programmers have to deal with someone like you as they try to navigate the field, as they'll obviously be left wanting. 100% agree, my friend.

As I was reading through this article the only thing that struck me was the elitist attitude of the author. “If you don’t start programming before 10 you’re bad.” “If you don’t spend all of your free time on programming internet sites, you’re bad.”

All complete bullshit. To be a programmer is to be a problem solver, not a “code machine”. Humans are natural problem solvers. I believe anyone could be a passable programmer given the effort, granted with differing levels of aptitude as is the case in any field.

To write off someone because they’re new to programming, or new to a language, or new to a coding standard- is beyond blind. You should relish in the opportunity to see a problem through this fresh set of eyes, not deride them because you think programming should be some sort of “secret club.”

And the final line: “but all falls down to numbers.” Yep I think that about sums up this post. 0/10. I hope no prospective programmers have to deal with someone like you as they try to navigate the field, as they’ll obviously be left wanting.

]]> By: Lars http://www.iovene.com/56/#comment-116905 Lars Wed, 02 Feb 2011 13:40:36 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/why-most-programmers-are-lousy/#comment-116905 Wow, a long time ago for this article. But your comment is spot on for my thougths on the subject. Maybe I can add: you don't put a too brilliant programmer laying the foundations of a code and then expect the support team to be able to fix some bug or feature cleaning/adding. Like: "this is a pointer to a (function?) pointer that points to an array with pointers that....and there you finally reach the requested string". 5 or 6 levels of pointers were involved! Real example in C that I experienced 10 years ago. Of course we had to find the original programmer to come and help us! Thanks God he was still with us... Wow, a long time ago for this article. But your comment is spot on for my thougths on the subject. Maybe I can add: you don’t put a too brilliant programmer laying the foundations of a code and then expect the support team to be able to fix some bug or feature cleaning/adding. Like: “this is a pointer to a (function?) pointer that points to an array with pointers that….and there you finally reach the requested string”. 5 or 6 levels of pointers were involved! Real example in C that I experienced 10 years ago. Of course we had to find the original programmer to come and help us! Thanks God he was still with us…

]]> By: Bobs Abob http://www.iovene.com/56/#comment-109784 Bobs Abob Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:33:51 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/why-most-programmers-are-lousy/#comment-109784 This article reflects the lack of professionalism that our industry is known for. It's good to be eager or passionate about one's work, but the attitude expressed in this article is ridiculous. I personally think that there is a place for developers with a range of skills, goals, and motives. Think about it, do you want to develop cookie-cutter CRUD apps the rest of your life or should this type of task be given to a less-experienced programmer? If you're so passionate about your job, then why not try to inspire or mentor some of the less-experienced programmers instead of whining? I think that the immaturity amongst our 'top' developers is the real problem with IT; the fact that we have individuals with differing motives and skill-levels isn't unique to our industry. We should realize that people can contribute in different ways and not everyone is motivated by the same things. Throughout one's life, interests and motivation may (or may not) change. It's sad to see this attitude is perpetuated; I hope that the new developers out there don't get the wrong impression of how one should act in their new role. This article reflects the lack of professionalism that our industry is known for.

It’s good to be eager or passionate about one’s work, but the attitude expressed in this article is ridiculous. I personally think that there is a place for developers with a range of skills, goals, and motives. Think about it, do you want to develop cookie-cutter CRUD apps the rest of your life or should this type of task be given to a less-experienced programmer? If you’re so passionate about your job, then why not try to inspire or mentor some of the less-experienced programmers instead of whining?

I think that the immaturity amongst our ‘top’ developers is the real problem with IT; the fact that we have individuals with differing motives and skill-levels isn’t unique to our industry. We should realize that people can contribute in different ways and not everyone is motivated by the same things. Throughout one’s life, interests and motivation may (or may not) change.

It’s sad to see this attitude is perpetuated; I hope that the new developers out there don’t get the wrong impression of how one should act in their new role.

]]> By: Mike http://www.iovene.com/56/#comment-109772 Mike Wed, 24 Nov 2010 18:22:01 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/why-most-programmers-are-lousy/#comment-109772 I think a lot of people still are leaving out the problem of demand. The IT industry even through this bad economy has had a high demand for developers. I am not talking about high level managers. I am talking about Senior Developers and lower. As long as the demand remains high it becomes easier for people to get hired. This is kind of off the cuff and I don't have any statistics to back this up at the moment, but it sure seems like developers have an easier time finding a job nowadays then some other professions. I think a lot of people still are leaving out the problem of demand. The IT industry even through this bad economy has had a high demand for developers. I am not talking about high level managers. I am talking about Senior Developers and lower. As long as the demand remains high it becomes easier for people to get hired. This is kind of off the cuff and I don’t have any statistics to back this up at the moment, but it sure seems like developers have an easier time finding a job nowadays then some other professions.

]]> By: Nikolai http://www.iovene.com/56/#comment-109769 Nikolai Wed, 24 Nov 2010 17:41:48 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/why-most-programmers-are-lousy/#comment-109769 "In other words, I don’t think it’s pos si ble, nowa days, to become a great pro gram mer if you didn’t start get ting some inter est in the field when you were very young, say about 10 years old (with the due excep tions, of course)" Oh, excuse me sir for being too poor growing up and not having access to computers until I was like 16. So only rich people from 1st world countries get be be great programmers, I get it. AMAZING! “In other words, I don’t think it’s pos si ble, nowa days, to become a great pro gram mer if you didn’t start get ting some inter est in the field when you were very young, say about 10 years old (with the due excep tions, of course)”

Oh, excuse me sir for being too poor growing up and not having access to computers until I was like 16. So only rich people from 1st world countries get be be great programmers, I get it. AMAZING!

]]> By: Chris http://www.iovene.com/56/#comment-109767 Chris Wed, 24 Nov 2010 17:04:49 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/why-most-programmers-are-lousy/#comment-109767 Parts of this article made me cringe, not because it's poorly written but because I genuinely know people who have taken CS as a degree without giving the foggiest about programming. I took CS because I loved programming and computer architecture and did it both hobbyist and academically (for my A-levels). Yet I know people who were in the same year at me who didn't understand programming, took all the project management/UML/business units and came out with a decent-ish degree because there wasn't enough programming in the core units of the course. The way the degrees are calculated you could get 40% (minimum PASS in the UK) and still end up with a high grade based on how the rest of your degree was calculated. Genuinely a travesty... I loved that for 1-8 I can say 'that's not me' - a well written article and a thumbs up from me. Parts of this article made me cringe, not because it’s poorly written but because I genuinely know people who have taken CS as a degree without giving the foggiest about programming.

I took CS because I loved programming and computer architecture and did it both hobbyist and academically (for my A-levels). Yet I know people who were in the same year at me who didn’t understand programming, took all the project management/UML/business units and came out with a decent-ish degree because there wasn’t enough programming in the core units of the course. The way the degrees are calculated you could get 40% (minimum PASS in the UK) and still end up with a high grade based on how the rest of your degree was calculated.

Genuinely a travesty… I loved that for 1-8 I can say ‘that’s not me’ – a well written article and a thumbs up from me.

]]> By: Fridge Freezers · http://www.iovene.com/56/#comment-109373 Fridge Freezers · Mon, 08 Nov 2010 12:44:43 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/why-most-programmers-are-lousy/#comment-109373 my job as a computer programmer is a very satisfying job '' my job as a computer programmer is a very satisfying job ”

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