Comments on: TABs vs Spaces. The end of the debate. http://www.iovene.com/61 The thoughts of a computer programmer, open source supporter and free-thinker. Mon, 19 Jul 2010 23:38:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: franz http://www.iovene.com/61#comment-104284 franz Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:40:13 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-104284 Perhaps you should adapt your statement: "So, in the end, it doesn’t mat­ter whether you use TABs or space, for indent­ing, as long as you use just spaces for align­ing." Add: "If you have decided to use TABs or spaces for indenting: use it consequently." Because if you mix it, you will have problems with the indent if someone else changes the tab width in his editor. Perhaps you should adapt your statement:
“So, in the end, it doesn’t mat­ter whether you use TABs or space, for indent­ing, as long as you use just spaces for align­ing.” Add:
“If you have decided to use TABs or spaces for indenting: use it consequently.“
Because if you mix it, you will have problems with the indent if someone else changes the tab width in his editor.

]]> By: BozoTheClone http://www.iovene.com/61#comment-102393 BozoTheClone Thu, 03 Dec 2009 08:59:10 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-102393 Has it ever occured to people that perhaps the problem is that source code is saved as text files? Perhaps this aspect of programming needs to step out of the dark ages and into a modern light. Why not have a new class of source code editors that save everything as XML? The notion to indentation and alignment can simply be set as user preferences in the editor and not persisted in the source file itself. The formatting of the code should be more about the preferences of the individual programmer and not anything to do with the source code itself. Two different programmers could view the same source code, but it is arranged in two totally different ways to suit each programmer differently. After all, to the compiler the tabs and spaces are mostly meaningless unless inside of a literal piece of data. If the source code was actually an XML document you could embed pictures and diagrams in the actual file instead of relying always on pure text based comments with limited ASCII art. You could embed code review comments, revision information in a way that doesn't clutter up the code. Don't pick a side in this debate. Simply eliminate the need for the debate... Has it ever occured to people that perhaps the problem is that source code is saved as text files? Perhaps this aspect of programming needs to step out of the dark ages and into a modern light. Why not have a new class of source code editors that save everything as XML? The notion to indentation and alignment can simply be set as user preferences in the editor and not persisted in the source file itself. The formatting of the code should be more about the preferences of the individual programmer and not anything to do with the source code itself. Two different programmers could view the same source code, but it is arranged in two totally different ways to suit each programmer differently. After all, to the compiler the tabs and spaces are mostly meaningless unless inside of a literal piece of data.

If the source code was actually an XML document you could embed pictures and diagrams in the actual file instead of relying always on pure text based comments with limited ASCII art. You could embed code review comments, revision information in a way that doesn’t clutter up the code.

Don’t pick a side in this debate. Simply eliminate the need for the debate…

]]> By: Drab as a fool, aloof as a bard http://www.iovene.com/61#comment-101536 Drab as a fool, aloof as a bard Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:55:20 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-101536 <strong>Whitespace standards...</strong> When writing code, it is good to be consistent about how you use whitespace. When collaborating with others, it can actually be detrimental to your group’s productivity if there is a mix of systems, so the sensible thing is to pick a standard ea... Whitespace standards…

When writing code, it is good to be consistent about how you use whitespace. When collaborating with others, it can actually be detrimental to your group’s productivity if there is a mix of systems, so the sensible thing is to pick a standard ea…

]]> By: James http://www.iovene.com/61#comment-96412 James Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:50:09 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-96412 Finally, someone with common sense! I am a tab cadet for indentation, but I prefer spaces for aligning other parts of the line on those occasions when alignment helps readability. An even better approach would be "elastic tabstops" - basically, use tabs as in a tab-separated data file, and the editor can dynamically align the columns. Imagine you decide to add a variable that's 3 characters longer than the former-longest. No need to go back and adjust the spacing for the other 15 lines; the editor takes care of presentation. Unfortunately, none of the good editors have this option (yet?). Finally, someone with common sense! I am a tab cadet for indentation, but I prefer spaces for aligning other parts of the line on those occasions when alignment helps readability.

An even better approach would be “elastic tabstops” — basically, use tabs as in a tab-separated data file, and the editor can dynamically align the columns. Imagine you decide to add a variable that’s 3 characters longer than the former-longest. No need to go back and adjust the spacing for the other 15 lines; the editor takes care of presentation. Unfortunately, none of the good editors have this option (yet?).

]]> By: Marius Andersen http://www.iovene.com/61#comment-93423 Marius Andersen Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:46:40 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-93423 Stefan Persson, to have Emacs use tabs for indentation and spaces everywhere else, you can make the indentation offset an alias of the tab width, set ‘indent-tabs-mode’ to ‘nil’, and then write a wrap-around defadvice for the indentation function that shadows the global value. E.g., for CC Mode: (defvaralias 'c-basic-offset 'tab-width) (setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil) (defadvice c-indent-line (around intelligent-tabs activate) (let ((indent-tabs-mode t) (tab-width fill-column) (c-basic-offset fill-column)) ad-do-it)) The defadvice also sees to that continuation lines are indented with a tab width-invariant mixture of tabs and spaces. For details, see http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/IntelligentTabs . Stefan Persson,

to have Emacs use tabs for indentation and spaces everywhere else, you can make the indentation offset an alias of the tab width, set ‘indent-tabs-mode’ to ‘nil’, and then write a wrap-around defadvice for the indentation function that shadows the global value. E.g., for CC Mode:

(defvaralias ‘c-basic-offset ‘tab-width)
(setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil)
(defadvice c-indent-line (around intelligent-tabs activate)
(let ((indent-tabs-mode t)
(tab-width fill-column)
(c-basic-offset fill-column))
ad-do-it))

The defadvice also sees to that continuation lines are indented with a tab width-invariant mixture of tabs and spaces. For details, see http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/IntelligentTabs .

]]> By: Jeremy Banks http://www.iovene.com/61#comment-34735 Jeremy Banks Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:33:59 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-34735 I like using tabs for indentation because it allows multiple editing the same code to use whatever scale of indentation that they want, assuming they're using an editor that allows them to set the width of tabs. It just seems more friendly, since you don't forge everyone reading your code into the same indentation depth as you use. Obviously, I use spaces for alignment. I like using tabs for indentation because it allows multiple editing the same code to use whatever scale of indentation that they want, assuming they’re using an editor that allows them to set the width of tabs. It just seems more friendly, since you don’t forge everyone reading your code into the same indentation depth as you use.

Obviously, I use spaces for alignment.

]]> By: Salvatore Iovene http://www.iovene.com/61#comment-13916 Salvatore Iovene Fri, 06 Jun 2008 07:58:08 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-13916 Mike (#16), you got the point completely. :) Mike (#16), you got the point completely. :)

]]> By: Mike http://www.iovene.com/61#comment-13915 Mike Fri, 06 Jun 2008 07:42:31 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-13915 Nick Westgate (#6), you totally missed the point. The article explicitly states that tabs should not be used for alignment. YOU draw the conclusion that tabs are therefore evil, and spaces should be used, disregarding the articles statement that for indenting tabs vs. spaces is a useless discussion nobody can win. So to conclude, once again, don't use tabs for aligment. For indenting use tabs or spaces. Period. Nick Westgate (#6), you totally missed the point. The article explicitly states that tabs should not be used for alignment. YOU draw the conclusion that tabs are therefore evil, and spaces should be used, disregarding the articles statement that for indenting tabs vs. spaces is a useless discussion nobody can win.

So to conclude, once again, don’t use tabs for aligment. For indenting use tabs or spaces. Period.

]]> By: Stefan Persson http://www.iovene.com/61#comment-1917 Stefan Persson Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:52:16 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-1917 I totally agree with the aricles view on using spaces for alignment, and have an Emacs question: Since I want to use tabs for indentation (so people can view it as they want) and spaces for my alignment, it would be great if the auto-indent (pressing ) functionality used tabs, and pressing C-q produced spaces. But the variable 'indent-tabs-mode' that switches spaces/tabs-behaviour, unfortunately changes it for BOTH situations so that I can't mix the styles as I want. What do to, what to do...? I totally agree with the aricles view on using spaces for alignment, and have an Emacs question: Since I want to use tabs for indentation (so people can view it as they want) and spaces for my alignment, it would be great if the auto-indent (pressing ) functionality used tabs, and pressing C-q produced spaces. But the variable ‘indent-tabs-mode’ that switches spaces/tabs-behaviour, unfortunately changes it for BOTH situations so that I can’t mix the styles as I want. What do to, what to do…?

]]> By: Francois Hill http://www.iovene.com/61#comment-1817 Francois Hill Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:41:45 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-1817 I was thinking of writing an article on that ... but there, you've said it all. Many coders I see around me still don't get the difference between the uses of tab and space. Any people advocating the use of one over the other, or pointing out a fantasized shortcoming of the "tab method" (including Nick Westgate) have still not got it and are a waste of office space ! ;oP I was thinking of writing an article on that … but there, you’ve said it all.

Many coders I see around me still don’t get the difference between the uses of tab and space.

Any people advocating the use of one over the other, or pointing out a fantasized shortcoming of the “tab method” (including Nick Westgate) have still not got it and are a waste of office space ! ;oP

]]>