Comments on: TABs vs Spaces. The end of the debate. http://www.iovene.com/61/ The thoughts of a computer programmer, open source supporter, astrophotographer and free-thinker. Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:08:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: msharman http://www.iovene.com/61/#comment-185853 msharman Tue, 24 Jan 2012 02:21:47 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-185853 This. Using a combination of spaces and TABs for indenting is bad. It will cause indentation to be messed up when a user has a different size of TABs. So you can either ban spaces or ban TABs, personally I my preference is to ban TABs so that indentation is as the author intended not mangled according to different users preferences. I want my teams code to be consistently indented regardless of what editor settings they have. This. Using a combination of spaces and TABs for indenting is bad. It will cause indentation to be messed up when a user has a different size of TABs. So you can either ban spaces or ban TABs, personally I my preference is to ban TABs so that indentation is as the author intended not mangled according to different users preferences. I want my teams code to be consistently indented regardless of what editor settings they have.

]]> By: Dennis http://www.iovene.com/61/#comment-171352 Dennis Thu, 17 Nov 2011 17:12:35 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-171352 Not arbitrary ... we are looking for a standard here ... So, to those who say: "... Spaces are arbitrary, as a developer is then free to chose how many spaces at will ..." or the equivalent, I say: Indentation and alignment - just use one (1) space Use one (1) space always, no tabs ... no multi-spaces. All my coding in many prog langs and HTML and XML is done with one (1) space. I fix many a code snippet accordingly also. The discussion should be one (1) space vs tabs and ... one (1) space wins everytime er, cept maybe Python ... (he sits back in his chair and braces for the flurry ...) Not arbitrary … we are looking for a standard here … So, to those who say:

“… Spaces are arbitrary, as a developer is then free to chose how many spaces at will …” or the equivalent, I say:

Indentation and alignment – just use one (1) space

Use one (1) space always, no tabs … no multi-spaces. All my coding in many prog langs and HTML and XML is done with one (1) space. I fix many a code snippet accordingly also.

The discussion should be one (1) space vs tabs and … one (1) space wins everytime er, cept maybe Python … (he sits back in his chair and braces for the flurry …)

]]> By: KNL http://www.iovene.com/61/#comment-163837 KNL Mon, 10 Oct 2011 05:32:26 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-163837 This is stil the most relevant and enlightning article on the entire Internet about the issue. Great work! This is stil the most relevant and enlightning article on the entire Internet about the issue. Great work!

]]> By: McKelvin http://www.iovene.com/61/#comment-155918 McKelvin Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:21:04 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-155918 I've been involved in this question for almost the whole afternoon.After reading your article,I decide to keep a habit of using TABs in VIM. I’ve been involved in this question for almost the whole afternoon.After reading your article,I decide to keep a habit of using TABs in VIM.

]]> By: Sean http://www.iovene.com/61/#comment-149784 Sean Fri, 02 Sep 2011 17:13:22 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-149784 If your code is run remotely and not compiled or minified, you should use tabs for bandwidth reasons. Of course you should try and minify your non-compiled code, in which case your preference doesn't matter for bandwidth reasons, except unless your crappy corporate inspired source control system doesn't support lines over 1000 characters long, making minification impossible. If you expect others to look at your code, you should use tabs for individual preference reasons. This really trumps all other preferences. And in this day and age of IDE's and configurable editors, there's just no excuse for spaces. If your code is run remotely and not compiled or minified, you should use tabs for bandwidth reasons. Of course you should try and minify your non-compiled code, in which case your preference doesn’t matter for bandwidth reasons, except unless your crappy corporate inspired source control system doesn’t support lines over 1000 characters long, making minification impossible.

If you expect others to look at your code, you should use tabs for individual preference reasons. This really trumps all other preferences. And in this day and age of IDE’s and configurable editors, there’s just no excuse for spaces.

]]> By: TABs vs Spaces | Project Maple http://www.iovene.com/61/#comment-149550 TABs vs Spaces | Project Maple Thu, 01 Sep 2011 16:35:24 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-149550 [...] ????(align)??????????????????tab??????editor????tab????????????????? proof: TABs vs Spaces. The end of the debate. [...] [...] ????(align)??????????????????tab??????editor????tab????????????????? proof: TABs vs Spaces. The end of the debate. [...]

]]> By: John http://www.iovene.com/61/#comment-148992 John Mon, 29 Aug 2011 16:22:29 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-148992 I don't think he got it right. "for indenting tabs vs. spaces is a useless discussion nobody can win." It is not a useless discussion. There are real factors to consider. 'Win' is a loaded term as well. I prefer to think of it as, "in the context of coding, which is more rational to use?" See my post at the end if you are still monitoring this at all, I know its years later. I don’t think he got it right. “for indenting tabs vs. spaces is a useless discussion nobody can win.” It is not a useless discussion. There are real factors to consider. ‘Win’ is a loaded term as well. I prefer to think of it as, “in the context of coding, which is more rational to use?” See my post at the end if you are still monitoring this at all, I know its years later.

]]> By: John http://www.iovene.com/61/#comment-148989 John Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:48:55 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-148989 I know this article is not about one being better than the other. It's about consistency, and using spaces for aligning. First of all, I don't see MUCH value in aligning variables, but it does help readability a little bit. Not for me though. What I do resent though, is the claim that for indentation, it's just a personal choice. It's not that I disagree, it's that it would be nice to actually use logical considerations, i.e. pros and cons. One thing that really irritates me is that when discussing indentation, it is only ever in the context of "readability." As a programmer, this lack of critical thinking about indentation saddens me. Indentation MEANS something in terms of code functionality. It's not just some ornament. Indentation represents the SCOPE DEPTH of the indented code. A variable declared in scope depth 3 will not be accessible in scope depth 2. This is why TABS make sense. A tab is one character. Therefore there is an equality between the number of tab characters and the scope of the code. Spaces are arbitrary, as a developer is then free to chose how many spaces at will. This makes refactoring code in batch MUCH easier. Also, it prevents misalignment of code written by different developers. I don't know about you guys, but my projects usually consist of code from dozens of developers, many contributing to the same files. What if one developer uses 4 spaces and another uses 5? So there is an added effort needed to ensure everyone is using the same number of spaces. THAT's what leads to "religious" arguments about how deep an indentation should be. To the contrary, if the standard is tabs, then each developer is free to configure his/her editor to render tabs however they please. Everybody can make the code look how THEY want, without actually mixing code that doesn't line up. Now, I'm not saying that's the end all be all of the discussion. But isn't it rational to say, if there are major pro's to Tabs, as I have asserted above, then to counter with "spaces are better" one should be diligent enough to say something better than "that's what I'm used to and I like it that way" John I know this article is not about one being better than the other. It’s about consistency, and using spaces for aligning.

First of all, I don’t see MUCH value in aligning variables, but it does help readability a little bit. Not for me though.

What I do resent though, is the claim that for indentation, it’s just a personal choice. It’s not that I disagree, it’s that it would be nice to actually use logical considerations, i.e. pros and cons.

One thing that really irritates me is that when discussing indentation, it is only ever in the context of “readability.” As a programmer, this lack of critical thinking about indentation saddens me.

Indentation MEANS something in terms of code functionality. It’s not just some ornament. Indentation represents the SCOPE DEPTH of the indented code. A variable declared in scope depth 3 will not be accessible in scope depth 2.

This is why TABS make sense. A tab is one character. Therefore there is an equality between the number of tab characters and the scope of the code. Spaces are arbitrary, as a developer is then free to chose how many spaces at will.

This makes refactoring code in batch MUCH easier. Also, it prevents misalignment of code written by different developers. I don’t know about you guys, but my projects usually consist of code from dozens of developers, many contributing to the same files. What if one developer uses 4 spaces and another uses 5? So there is an added effort needed to ensure everyone is using the same number of spaces. THAT’s what leads to “religious” arguments about how deep an indentation should be. To the contrary, if the standard is tabs, then each developer is free to configure his/her editor to render tabs however they please. Everybody can make the code look how THEY want, without actually mixing code that doesn’t line up.

Now, I’m not saying that’s the end all be all of the discussion. But isn’t it rational to say, if there are major pro’s to Tabs, as I have asserted above, then to counter with “spaces are better” one should be diligent enough to say something better than “that’s what I’m used to and I like it that way”

John

]]> By: Tabs vs. Spaces | MTR http://www.iovene.com/61/#comment-147136 Tabs vs. Spaces | MTR Fri, 19 Aug 2011 22:52:27 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-147136 [...] [Coding Horror: Death to the Space Infidels] [Joel on Software Forum: Tabs or Spaces?] [Why I Love Tabs] [Why I Prefer NO Tabs] [The Tabs vs. Spaces Holy War] [Revisiting Tabs and Spaces] [Rizzoweb: Tabs vs. Spaces] [Tabs vs. Spaces: The End of the Debate!] [...] [...] [Coding Horror: Death to the Space Infidels] [Joel on Software Forum: Tabs or Spaces?] [Why I Love Tabs] [Why I Prefer NO Tabs] [The Tabs vs. Spaces Holy War] [Revisiting Tabs and Spaces] [Rizzoweb: Tabs vs. Spaces] [Tabs vs. Spaces: The End of the Debate!] [...]

]]> By: Oz http://www.iovene.com/61/#comment-141109 Oz Sun, 17 Jul 2011 05:36:53 +0000 http://www.iovene.com/tabs-vs-spaces-the-end-of-the-debate/#comment-141109 Please don't criticize the author of that Linux kernel code piece (for using tabs for align). The whole point is that in the Linux kernel code they use tabs which has the width equal to 8 spaces. The Linux kernel project enforces that rule and if you are willing to contribute you write your code so that it obeys those rules (and many others as well). In other words we may have our personal preferences but when we are contributing to an established project we have to adjust ourselves (and our text editors) to the rules of the project. Please don’t criticize the author of that Linux kernel code piece (for using tabs for align). The whole point is that in the Linux kernel code they use tabs which has the width equal to 8 spaces. The Linux kernel project enforces that rule and if you are willing to contribute you write your code so that it obeys those rules (and many others as well).

In other words we may have our personal preferences but when we are contributing to an established project we have to adjust ourselves (and our text editors) to the rules of the project.

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